|

Financing a solar installation that pays for itself

Watch this presentation video to learn how a house of worship got individuals to form an LLC and do a solar installation that paid for itself. However, because of the laws passed by the state legislature, they are unable to provide electricity to the next-door neighbors. Those who wish to create microgrids face legal challenges that are much more onerous than the technology or the financing.

MI Solar Story, GLREA

Transcript of the video

00:07
hi this is John Sarver welcome to our
00:09
fifth installment in the Michigan solar
00:12
story series that’s sponsored by the
00:14
Great Lakes Renewable Energy Association
00:16
and the Michigan solar users Network in
00:19
tonight we have Murray Rosenthal and
00:22
David Lewis who are going to talk to us
00:25
about the house of work worship this
00:28
house of worship in Ann Arbor the
00:30
genesis about the 64 kilowatt project
00:34
they did and particularly about the
00:35
investor model that they used to define
00:38
Ansett and so I’d ask you please to mu-2
00:43
yourself until we get to the question
00:46
and answer period and with that Marie
00:49
why don’t you tell us your story okay so
00:55
this is title is how to Solarize your
01:00
house of worship and it’s being given by
01:02
myself and David Lewis and we’re with
01:05
Genesis which is a house of worship in
01:08
Ann Arbor and more about Genesis later
01:11
so what I want you to do is to go up to
01:15
the leaders in your house of worship or
01:17
perhaps if you know of a nonprofit that
01:19
you’re involved with and tell them we
01:21
can get solar installed on your building
01:24
and no cost you don’t need any donations
01:28
no loans only to pay us for electricity
01:31
we generate using this investor model
01:35
what’s in it for me we’re gonna learn
01:38
how to get solar on your house of
01:40
worship this talks gonna go about 20
01:44
minutes and there’s going to be three
01:46
parts the first part is what we did and
01:52
the second part is very important it’s
01:56
why we did it and I want to use a quote
01:57
from that great American patriot Jerry
02:01
Garcia somebody has to do something
02:03
about global warming it’s just
02:06
incredibly pathetic
02:08
it has to be us and the third part is
02:13
how we did it and and that that’s the
02:17
most important point because that’s the
02:19
how-to that you can use to do it on your
02:21
house of worship condo association or
02:24
nonprofit so this is what we did it so
02:31
once upon a time to house the support
02:34
you’ve got to go there’s about forty
02:35
years ago and to decided to share a
02:38
building Genesis Savannah
02:41
Genesis is the entity that oversees the
02:43
building and nurtures the relationship
02:45
between the two congregations and the
02:48
two congregations are Sinclairs
02:49
Episcopal Church and two different
02:54
religions same building temple uses it
02:57
on Friday and Saturday and the trix uses
02:59
it on Sunday also in the building to
03:07
worship but we have a lot of same values
03:10
and we have a lot of shared social
03:12
activity else also third congregation
03:17
uses of building on Sunday they rent the
03:19
social hall blue ocean faith and we have
03:22
a preschool that meets in the building
03:25
so for institutions in one we save
03:28
energy right there we didn’t have to do
03:30
anything and we still saving energy
03:34
about five years ago we formed the
03:37
Genesis green committee David and I are
03:39
on there’s four or five members right
03:42
now and this is our motto
03:44
Genesis greeting building to reduce
03:46
carbon emissions all together that’s a
03:49
double double entendre and one thing
03:53
about the zoo platform I can’t hear you
03:55
guys laugh you guys got it laughs louder
03:57
I can’t hear you so gotta minimize this
04:06
so I can see so what we did 160 solar
04:13
panels we had two roofs a flat roof run
04:15
on the left is the social hall roof and
04:17
the
04:18
a slanted roof on the right at the
04:20
office roof 80 panels I’m getting reverb
04:24
sir
04:25
80 panels on each 64 kilowatts or inner
04:33
watts per panel it’s going to generate
04:35
about 31 percent of our consume power
04:37
when the building is occupied right now
04:39
it’s not we’re putting power back on the
04:41
grid right now when live on February 4th
04:46
here’s some pictures the left is the
04:49
office roof or the center is the social
04:53
hall you notice we didn’t have to drill
04:55
any holes or screw anything down there
04:56
they’re weighted down with concrete
04:58
blocks so they’re removable and on the
05:01
right that’s our typical generation I
05:03
think the month after this first started
05:05
reducing electricity solar panel
05:09
installations cost money houses abortion
05:13
nonprofits kind of associations they
05:15
don’t have a lot of money so we
05:18
considered our green team considered
05:20
many many ways of funding solar we first
05:24
thought the loan was the way to go but
05:26
we couldn’t even approach our board to
05:30
buy in on that you’d do a capital
05:33
campaign we could ask for donations but
05:36
we finally decided on was an investor’s
05:38
group and I think if you start this
05:42
you’ll gain it’ll finish I think you’ll
05:47
you’ll have fantastic luck doing this
05:50
and fantastic results so why do we need
05:55
an LLC nonprofits don’t pay taxes so
06:00
they can’t take advantage of the 30%
06:03
federal tax credit that existed last
06:05
year it’s gone down this year we’ll talk
06:08
about that and also depreciation of the
06:11
panel’s so they can’t take advantage of
06:13
those two things that they would if you
06:15
put them on your house so this is our
06:18
model we formed an LLC you call Eastover
06:22
they bought the panel’s and paid for the
06:24
installation they own the panel panels
06:28
Genesis Greece of having them on the
06:30
roof and using the generator
06:32
the investors will get a 30% tax credit
06:35
this year because the it was
06:39
construction started last year in
06:41
December and Genesis Casey’s Eastover 11
06:44
an abscess per kilowatt which is a
06:47
little bit cheaper than the current rate
06:49
of 12.5 which as you all know or you
06:52
should know DTE just raised the rates
06:54
this month so it’s gonna go up from 12.5
06:57
so 20 congregate got together form
07:02
Eastover LLC and and the cost of our our
07:05
system was 120 thousand dollars and I
07:10
want to talk about why we call it East
07:13
over well you can see this is a picture
07:15
of our building before the solar panels
07:18
Packers quarterback up Street in the
07:21
East over place in Ann Arbor and you can
07:25
see at the top there’s the east over
07:26
it’s labeled we didn’t call you sober
07:30
because we’re located on East over we
07:32
called it East over because like Genesis
07:34
it’s a contraction east you stir and
07:37
pass over okay why we did it
07:41
part two global warming it’s a problem
07:46
everybody knows why specifically us we
07:51
want to help the global warming problem
07:52
reduce the carbon footprint of the for
07:55
the building it has long-term energy
07:58
savings for the building and it
08:02
increases the property value a building
08:06
now David and I for these five years
08:10
we’ve been on Green Team and the entire
08:11
green team thought this was a good idea
08:13
whether or not there is payback I mean
08:15
global warming is an issue in if if we
08:18
don’t take action who will if the house
08:22
of worship doesn’t so now you’ll see in
08:25
our Fronteras Genesis buildings we have
08:27
this small a very old 150 year old
08:29
building where we have a food pantry we
08:32
feed about 160 people each week give
08:37
them free food there’s no financial
08:40
payback for that right what we do it
08:43
anyways because it’s the right thing to
08:44
do
08:45
our solar panels how we did it so this
08:50
is the important part if we could do it
08:54
you could do it we had many many more
08:57
obstacles than you could you ever even
08:58
think of being being the fact that we
09:02
have we have a partnership so this is
09:07
the investor model house of worship
09:09
investor model so this is the tax
09:12
credits you can see that they’re
09:14
disappearing
09:15
they shouldn’t be disappearing you
09:16
should call your Congressman and tell
09:19
them they shouldn’t be disappearing but
09:22
they’re 26% if you start a project this
09:25
year next year it will be 22 and after
09:28
that 10 it’s only for commercials so you
09:31
need to do this soon so first step and
09:37
there’s 18 steps I’m gonna go over the
09:40
first step in detail the other 18 I’m
09:42
gonna breeze through in the interest of
09:44
time so the first step is talk to the
09:49
leaders the clergy the lay leaders the
09:52
elders whoever’s in charge in general
09:55
terms about your idea tell them I’m
09:59
gonna make you an offer you can’t refuse
10:02
get some initial buying tell them it’s
10:06
not gonna cost you anything tell them
10:11
about similar success stories and I’ve
10:13
got some examples of those later in the
10:15
presentation oh that’s right here so
10:18
these are six houses of worship and
10:20
Southeast Michigan that have done this
10:23
used the investor model and by far
10:27
Genesis has and the most investors 20
10:29
some of them only had one some of them
10:33
used congregants some of them Dennis I
10:35
mean some one of them used an outside
10:37
person who who invested the money so on
10:41
all these six buildings there are 489
10:45
panels with an investment of four
10:46
hundred and three thousand dollars so if
10:51
you need to invite one of us David or I
10:54
or one of the other houses of worship
10:57
and we have a list of them who is that
11:00
Dennison isn’t her building tell him how
11:02
easy it is tell you tell your leaders if
11:08
this is just an idea for now just for it
11:10
explore they’re not making a commitment
11:12
and then ask for the permission to
11:16
proceed can we look at forming an
11:19
investment group and they’re gonna say
11:21
yes now Genesis had a caveat they didn’t
11:27
want this open to Bill Gates to buy the
11:28
panels or someone but with deep pockets
11:31
they wanted the members so we had to
11:34
inform the investment group of good
11:37
members of both congregations and we did
11:39
it you don’t have to you can find it you
11:42
can ask Bill Gates or someone else does
11:44
a lot of money and so step one is done
11:50
steps to the 18 or nest as I said I
11:53
cover stuff in detail I’m gonna briefs
11:55
you the other 17 steps but you don’t
11:58
have to worry there’s a document that we
12:00
will be glad to send you the details
12:02
each of the 18 steps so first step form
12:10
of green team if you don’t have one hold
12:13
a meeting and assign action items for
12:15
the next few steps the third step is to
12:19
cap your roots you want to use a
12:22
south-facing roof if possible if it’s a
12:25
gable roof or a flat roof a lot of
12:29
churches have flat roots and you need to
12:32
know what your energy usage is so you
12:36
need to look at your bills for the last
12:37
couple of years and you can get those
12:38
from DTE or your electric provider you
12:43
have to make sure your roofs are in good
12:45
shape you don’t want to put solar panels
12:46
on a roof and then a few years later
12:49
have to replace it so we had to do that
12:51
on our office roof and needed replaced
12:53
it was replaced a few weeks before the
12:55
solar installation started get quotes we
13:00
got four quotes I think you should get
13:02
at least three we found that the quotes
13:06
were pretty similar except for homeland
13:08
which was
13:09
quite a bit cheaper than the other so
13:11
you want with them after we check their
13:12
references and they’re very reputable
13:17
and let’s shoot for the moment let’s try
13:19
to cover our roofs with solar panels
13:22
like we did at Genesis we put them in
13:24
just about every place we could but your
13:29
solar installer can help you with that
13:31
you don’t want to you don’t want to
13:33
generate so much electricity that you’re
13:35
putting a lot back on the grid so we’re
13:38
at about 31 percent so that’s that we
13:40
feel that’s a sweet spot for our
13:42
building and the buildings at four years
13:50
so your solar installers will but you
13:54
know how many panels and they’ll give
13:57
you all the numbers and they’ll make
14:00
recommendations step five state your
14:05
intention to the board to find investors
14:06
and ask them if you’re allowed and say
14:10
yes then you’d have to communicate so
14:17
you may have just one investor in mind
14:19
and you can skip this step maybe it’s
14:20
you maybe it’s someone else but I
14:23
recommend you you you find investors if
14:28
because I think the more the merrier
14:31
it’s it’s quite one thing for one person
14:34
to invest $120,000 in an altruistic
14:37
investment but if you can find 20 people
14:40
to share the burden that’s not so bad
14:41
I hold an investor meeting and provide
14:46
the details in stress it’s an altruistic
14:52
investment no they will make money on
14:55
this a little bit probably going out 15
14:58
20 years they will start to see some
15:00
returns on their investment they’re not
15:02
going to lose money and it’s a win-win
15:06
situation it’s a win/win agreement
15:09
between the investor group and the Hausa
15:11
portion and they will get that 30
15:15
percent their money back this year or
15:18
next year on taxes
15:20
or 26 is right now I’m sorry 26 so you
15:26
need to have a legal agreement between
15:29
the LLC and the PPA in the house of
15:32
worship it’s called a power purchase
15:34
agreement of PPA it’s a long term
15:37
win/win agreement covers all the details
15:39
I provided the details to the interest
15:43
of potential investors in our case we
15:46
decided the minimum investment was 5,000
15:49
that’s what most of the 20 people put in
15:52
was 5,000 but some put in 10 or 15,000
15:55
or even 20 then you you analyze all this
16:01
and we have a lady that works with a
16:05
solar faithful name is Diane chocolate
16:07
and she has this energy data tool base
16:09
and she can run the numbers over the 20
16:12
years and that’s what we used to create
16:16
the power purchase agreement I you need
16:21
to set up the LLC it cost 50 dollars in
16:23
the state of Michigan you need a federal
16:25
tax ID number now you apply it to your
16:28
IRS for that you created an LLC
16:32
operating agreement this is the
16:33
operating agreement that it says how
16:36
your limited liability corporation is
16:39
going to work who’s the officer how the
16:44
officers are elected what happens if
16:46
someone leaves or or god forbid passes
16:51
away what happens to their share of
16:53
ownership there are three documents from
16:57
so it’s available from sort of solar
17:00
faithful their templates one is a LEED
17:02
PPA one is the agreement to set up the
17:05
LLC we just talked about and the third
17:08
is an agreement with the Installer let
17:12
the Installer he’ll probably have his
17:14
own agreement you may not need that
17:15
third one step 11 have the investor
17:21
sinuses script a subscription agreement
17:23
just a one-page forms saying hey I’m
17:26
committing to giving you $5,000 for this
17:30
LLC to buy the panels I’m sorry
17:34
and you opened a bank account you select
17:39
an installer from your many quotes and
17:41
you finalize the power purchase
17:44
agreement so this is this is a bigger
17:47
table it’s the pendeks to the PPA and at
17:50
the end you’ll see that we’re charged in
17:52
Genesis the same amount of electricity
17:53
we’re not like DTE we don’t raise the
17:55
rates every year so that probably 10
17:59
years from now it will be paying twice
18:00
to DTE what we’re you’re paying for the
18:04
salary and the estimated system
18:08
production it goes down about half a
18:09
percent a year just because the panel’s
18:11
age and the estimated monthly solar
18:15
payment to the LLC and the SLV amount
18:18
that’s that boost that’s due to the the
18:21
value because you can always there’s an
18:25
option in the PPA
18:26
that the not so fortunately can buy the
18:29
panels back at any time
18:31
after five years because the government
18:33
requires five years of LLC operation to
18:36
get the the credit so after five years
18:39
they can buy it back at any time and
18:44
then you have to finalize the power
18:47
purchase agreement in our case we had to
18:49
get the approval of five different and
18:51
it’s five you won’t you’ll probably have
18:54
one the genesis board the temple Beth
18:58
Emma’s board the same clears vestry the
19:02
Episcopal Diocese of Michigan and st.
19:05
Clare’s had to have a congregational
19:06
boat that took a while but only two or
19:12
three months not horrible you need to
19:17
decide on insurance typically it’s going
19:20
to be cheaper for the panel’s to be
19:22
covered by the House of warships
19:23
insurance need to select an accountant
19:27
tax preparer and then you have to
19:30
schedule the installation once you do
19:33
that you sit back and relax and let the
19:37
Installer do all the work there will be
19:39
some decisions like where to run the
19:41
wires and things but that that should be
19:44
a pretty pretty easy thing to decide
19:47
don’t forget patience is a virtue we
19:50
have our install started in December the
19:52
weather wasn’t too good it took a long
19:53
time and of course the utility drags
19:56
their feet
19:57
starting it up because they’re still
19:59
sawing electricity there’s nothing in it
20:03
for them to start your system but look
20:05
at to it eventually this is what an app
20:11
that we have SolarEdge that our
20:13
installer provided and it gives you
20:15
minute by minute generation of for your
20:21
system at this point we were generating
20:24
456 watts and you can see some days or
20:26
less sunny and we generate less and some
20:29
days we generate a lot we’ve been
20:31
generating a lot of power it’s it’s it’s
20:34
fun to watch and you can actually look
20:37
at each panel you can see each panel the
20:40
power generated and at first we had two
20:43
panels on the office roof that were kind
20:46
of misbehaving I believe they’ve been
20:47
fixed by our install so there are three
20:52
parts to our presentation
20:53
we cover them let’s do this let’s decide
20:57
let’s commit let’s succeed in getting
20:59
those panels on our condo association
21:02
our house of worship or our nonprofit
21:04
that we decide it’s our target
21:07
why not target to we will help you
21:12
there’s some resources as I mentioned
21:15
the document on how to which covers all
21:17
the details solar faithful an
21:21
organization in our in Ann Arbor
21:23
Michigan interfaith Power and Light
21:25
fellow congregants will help and you
21:28
have your faith upline to help so those
21:31
people in the National Organization they
21:33
will love the fact that you’re trying to
21:34
put solar panels on we love to present
21:38
just ask us in person or the assumed
21:40
hopefully in person is then I can hear
21:43
you laugh communication we have answers
21:48
to your questions and if we don’t find
21:50
out well finally your installers are a
21:54
great source of information I’d ask them
21:57
first and also there are government
22:00
resources
22:00
the city of Ann Arbor has committed to
22:03
becoming carbon neutral by the year 2030
22:06
that’s less than 10 years from and this
22:10
is this is part of their program houses
22:12
support stripping solar so it’s time for
22:15
questions but before we get into those I
22:18
wanted to mention that the same
22:21
information along with several other of
22:23
the houses of worship and nonprofits
22:26
that I showed you on that one busy slide
22:28
will be presented on Sunday this Sunday
22:32
at 1:00 to 3:30 p.m. of the assumed and
22:36
you should have received an invitation
22:38
to that with your invitation to this
22:40
meeting if you didn’t you can call or
22:43
email me my number is listed there my
22:46
cell phone seven three four eight six
22:48
four six seven five Oh just text me all
22:51
right
22:52
questions – questions no I’m I’m I’m
22:58
meeting everybody so if this if it
23:01
doesn’t get too chaotic if just yep
23:07
state your name and your question and
23:10
we’ll answer as we can if it starts
23:14
getting a bit too chaotic we might just
23:15
switch to questions via chat here let me
23:21
just first before we put any verbal
23:26
questions there is one question on the
23:27
chat from Mindy you see though there was
23:32
a big advantage to form your own LLC
23:35
rather than hire a company who does that
23:37
yeah we feel like there was a big there
23:39
was several advantages for us to have a
23:42
kind of in-house so to speak LLC the one
23:50
of the advantages was we unlike a
23:53
third-party LLC who would be doing this
23:56
in order to make money the car against
23:59
you know making money wasn’t really the
24:02
goal our goal was to save the
24:05
congregations mean by you know allowing
24:08
the house worship to benefit from the
24:11
tax credit so we are
24:14
charging there you know my mother very
24:18
generous rate when we sell the
24:21
electricity to the house worship just
24:23
again we’re not we’re not looking to
24:26
make money and then the other reason we
24:31
want to do it and it was just not having
24:35
a outside group having any sort of you
24:42
know fair involvement with something
24:45
that was pretty intimate for the house
24:47
of worship so the fact that the LLC is
24:48
made up of congregants we cannot feel
24:52
like even you know legally technically
24:54
as a third party but in reality it’s
24:56
kind of we’re all the same people which
24:58
we are you know expecting that to just
25:03
have everything work smoother that way
25:09
have a question to speak up okay I have
25:14
a question this is Charles Charles Morse
25:16
does the LLC model let’s say of a
25:19
congregate wanted to put solar on their
25:21
your palm can and would there be a way
25:25
that that model within you know LLC but
25:28
still an operation but could that could
25:30
that be adapted to Reza you also uh
25:33
congregate residences residential though
25:35
there’s really no there’s no reason you
25:38
would want to know see for a residential
25:41
installation because the homeowner if
25:45
it’s a traditional residential situation
25:48
where you have a homeowner who owns the
25:50
house was in the house they can take
25:52
advantage of the ellow of the tax credit
25:54
himself the only reason there’s a model
25:58
exists is because the house of worship
26:00
is not able to take advantage of the tax
26:03
credit there’s really no reason you
26:05
would do it
26:06
for single-family home it does exist
26:09
there are third parties out there who
26:11
will pay for panels and install on on
26:15
people’s homes but um I’d haven’t really
26:19
looked into it but I’ve been you know
26:20
what I’ve read is that you know it’s not
26:22
that much and it’s really not
26:24
necessarily a good idea
26:31
so I have a question
26:34
well a couple questions first of all are
26:37
you able to use what’s left of the net
26:41
metering someday utility company or does
26:43
that not apply to you yeah it does not
26:46
we were I’m not sure exactly when it
26:49
ended but we were we missed that turning
26:53
we were after the rules changed so we
26:57
get for all the power that our system
27:01
puts on the grid
27:04
DTE to pays the house of worship money
27:07
for that electricity but where they
27:10
charge you know the twelve and a half
27:12
cents for the electricity that they
27:15
provide house worship they only pay your
27:19
seven and a half cents for the for the
27:21
power that they buy from the house
27:23
worship so it’s a pretty substantial
27:24
difference but it’s – I’m at least
27:27
you’re getting seven half cents per
27:28
kilowatt hour okay and my other question
27:31
is so the investors in the LLC they take
27:36
their share of the thirty percent and
27:39
apply it against their personal income
27:42
from other sources exactly and I want to
27:48
credit it’s not a deduction it’s a
27:51
credit and it applies for the calendar
27:55
year that the system gets turned on so
27:59
the way the rules work so because we
28:03
started construction in 2019 that locked
28:07
us into the 2019 tax credit of 30% and
28:12
then you have a window it’s like a two
28:14
or three year window you have to
28:17
complete construction and turn on the
28:19
system and then you get the credit the
28:22
calendar year that the system was turned
28:23
on so we since our system was turned on
28:26
in February of 2020 the investors will
28:29
that tax rate will apply to our 2020
28:33
taxes
28:39
well I have a question can you hear me
28:45
yes you pay your utility bill monthly to
28:50
the investors is that correct so yes so
28:57
now the house of worship currently has
28:59
gets two bills because the system does
29:03
not provide all the electricity that
29:04
building uses so the house worship is
29:06
still purchasing electricity from DTE
29:09
but less than they used to so they still
29:12
get their bill their monthly bill from
29:14
dde and the LLC we we’re sending the
29:21
house of worship a bell just quarterly
29:24
to keep our paperwork more you know to
29:27
keep less we’re spending a bill to the
29:31
house worship quarterly so the house of
29:33
worship now is paying basically they
29:35
have now two different providers for
29:38
their electricity Thank You Marie David
29:48
are nasty here in discussing the program
29:52
and setting it up did you think about
29:55
larger social impacts the way that
29:59
buying renewable energy could help
30:04
people who are in low-resource
30:07
low-income communities yeah I’m not sure
30:13
if I understand your question exactly
30:14
but we have talked with the Michigan
30:19
interfaith Power and Light group and a
30:22
faithful group the idea of maybe
30:26
providing this kind of model with in
30:30
some communities you know there the
30:32
house were conservative communities that
30:34
don’t have the resources to come up with
30:37
investors so there is some we have
30:39
talked about it it seems like while we
30:43
start getting into the nitty-gritty it
30:44
gets complicated pretty quickly but in
30:46
theory it seems like you could present
30:50
this idea to how
30:51
to worship and say hey you know where we
30:56
have this group of investors already
30:57
created we would love to help you guys
31:00
get solar panels on your roof and here’s
31:04
you know how it could work and and it’s
31:06
in theory it should it should be pretty
31:09
easy it’s just some of the details get a
31:12
little complicated so it would be
31:14
wonderful to make that happen there’s a
31:16
question of someone I do want to say for
31:24
instance Diane Shack which is also on
31:26
the call and I mentioned in my
31:27
presentation we’re starting to work with
31:31
a church in Detroit it’s a church mainly
31:36
with black people and they’re very poor
31:38
but they’re considering using this model
31:44
for expressing interest in the last
31:47
couple weeks and also a condo
31:50
association here in Ann Arbor is
31:52
starting to use this model so that’s one
31:55
thing I wanted to mention hey I live a
31:58
suburban development I mean we could do
32:00
it here we could pick pick a field or
32:04
pick everybody’s roofs and tie the sword
32:06
all together and the kind of Association
32:09
and share the power so that question I
32:20
was wondering if we could adapt this to
32:25
a neighborhood and I was also curious
32:31
about more specific details on how the
32:35
investors get a return on their
32:37
investment you know if I put in $5,000
32:43
do I get interest so to speak dividends
32:47
on that money is it paid back as if it
32:51
were alone how does that work let me let
32:54
me address with your second question
32:55
first just cuz I know if they can answer
32:58
that one better so basically the so
33:02
everybody Wester invest there whatever
33:05
portion that they’re going to invest
33:07
like Marie mentioned our group a dozen
33:10
on minimum and with $1,000 increments
33:15
about that for any you know maximum and
33:19
then basically the ll Keith and collects
33:23
the money that the house warship pays us
33:27
for our electricity and then we’re will
33:29
be that up among some investors
33:31
proportionate to you know the percentage
33:34
that they own based on their initial
33:36
investment so and then our plan is to
33:42
sell the panels back to the house
33:44
warship after five years there’s and we
33:49
basically have a the groovy men in
33:53
places basically anywhere from year five
33:56
or ten and a year six to year twenty
33:59
that has worshipped by the panel’s in
34:01
every year the price goes down a little
34:04
bit to the point where after twenty
34:06
years it’s free we’re basically just
34:09
donating the panels to the house of
34:11
worship after twenty years so every year
34:14
for the first five years so the first
34:17
the first day the investors getting
34:20
there
34:21
you know return is the tax credit so if
34:25
you invested $5,000 a thirty percent
34:29
right off the top you get that fifteen
34:32
and three dollars back in in tax credit
34:37
and then every year you’ll collect money
34:40
from the payments of the house works it
34:42
makes further electricity you’re
34:44
providing them and then like in our case
34:46
when you’re after five or six years we
34:49
saw the panels and the purchase
34:51
agreement has that price for you know
34:53
the exact points that we will install
34:57
the panels for depending on what year it
34:59
is and that money gets distributed so to
35:02
all the investors so in the end we’re
35:04
expecting to earn maybe like one or two
35:06
percent on our money the goal was to not
35:12
lose money and not not simply break out
35:15
even but we were our goal was just to
35:18
make like one
35:18
2% just you know again the vessel that
35:25
idea we’re is going to ease or find
35:26
investors if it wasn’t like oh you know
35:29
you’re gonna lose money better clean
35:30
this but but we made it clear to
35:33
everybody up front you know this isn’t
35:34
this isn’t something to do if you’re
35:36
looking to earn money you know
35:39
it’s more your doing more for altruistic
35:41
purposes that’s 1 to 2% 2% I think total
35:49
okay where’s the wonder 2% I honestly
35:54
Mary I don’t remember if it was per year
35:56
total I I want to say it was total but
35:58
and maybe because electricity day as per
36:06
viewed a year is you know it’s kind of a
36:08
function of the the weather and the
36:10
clouds so you don’t really know what
36:13
your income is going to be and then let
36:16
me just answer your first question real
36:17
quickly and there’s there might be some
36:19
other people on this zoom meeting that
36:21
know better than I do I believe they’re
36:25
groups that are petitioning the state
36:26
right now to allow for neighborhood
36:30
solar that you can share you you know a
36:35
group of heat if group of individuals
36:37
can get together pay for a single
36:41
installation that would then generate
36:44
power for several houses but I
36:48
understand I don’t think that’s legal
36:50
right now
36:51
let’s see there’s a doctor on remote in
36:54
the chance there’s a weblink
36:56
in our neighborhood squad oh I’ll just
37:02
say that right now that’s simply an idea
37:07
I’m recovering from a serious spinal
37:10
cord injury I approached st. Thomas
37:12
Church last summer but nothing has
37:15
happened since then and I’m finally
37:18
getting better enough that I want to
37:19
follow up on it so I was really excited
37:22
to you know hear about this project my
37:26
cousin got married at that church maybe
37:29
20 years ago
37:31
so I’m I’m familiar with it I recently
37:37
came back from ten years in New York
37:40
City and there Brooklyn micro-grid has
37:44
neighbors selling electricity to other
37:48
neighbors who don’t have a solar on
37:51
their roof or small businesses there’s
37:54
I’ve got a collection of videos which if
37:57
you go to that link it was originally a
38:00
private group that I put up there and I
38:03
had posted a bunch of videos and
38:04
apparently they’ve somehow not remained
38:08
of viewable to the public but if you
38:11
register for the site and joining the
38:13
group which is a public group then
38:17
you’ll be able to to see that and
38:21
there’s there’s all this is a route
38:23
website with a small number of members
38:25
only started a couple of months ago but
38:30
before my accident my wife and I did web
38:32
development in New York City for ten
38:34
years let me address one issue to
38:39
community solar legislation has been
38:41
introduced in the Michigan Legislature
38:45
right now for practical purposes really
38:48
just utilities can do community solar
38:51
projects because the the the issue of
38:54
course gets into how do you get a bill
38:57
credit the utilities not cooperating
39:00
well of this community solar legislation
39:02
basically would allow nonprofit groups
39:05
and cities and private developers to
39:08
basically do community solar projects
39:11
and basically require the utilities to
39:14
then use Bill credits related to that
39:18
community solar project because that’s
39:21
been the big you know roadblock is you
39:25
know how do you get the bill credits to
39:27
the subscribers needless to say it’s not
39:32
that legislation that’s not a favorite
39:34
of our utilities and there’s strong
39:37
opposition to it that doesn’t mean it’s
39:41
not it means it’s I would have bet a lot
39:44
of money on it
39:45
I seen but I think it’s important that
39:47
the legislation was introduced and that
39:50
you know maybe I’ll be wrong or maybe
39:53
down the road something like that would
39:56
be passed because I think it would be
39:57
very helpful for kind of really
40:00
neighborhood community solar projects
40:03
you know it would just kind of open
40:05
things up in a lot of very positive ways
40:08
I’m John I’d be really interested in
40:11
finding out from from you if you post on
40:13
your website or email me who’s doing the
40:19
activism around changing those laws when
40:23
I got the idea for this project I
40:25
anticipated that DTE would be a huge
40:28
problem and I was as interested in
40:32
fighting that fight as trying to get
40:34
solar come I asked my wife and I when
40:37
we’re in New York City for ten years we
40:39
were developers one and two for Occupy
40:41
Wall Street if that gives you an idea
40:45
remember on the Great Lakes Renewable
40:47
Energy Association and there’s there’s
40:50
other organizations at the sides Geor EA
40:53
the D sorts of legislation the community
40:56
solar bill and the legislation related
40:59
to reinstating net metering and
41:02
eliminating the cap on net metering
41:06
projects is it all kind of on our list
41:09
of priorities there’s other groups too
41:11
you know almost all the environmental
41:13
groups are kind of supportive of this
41:15
these legislations and again the GL Rea
41:19
is is in the fight until number spine
41:31
but you know what you can do is you can
41:34
if you google Michigan Legislature it
41:37
basically brings you to a place where
41:39
you can either put in a keyword or a
41:41
bill number and you put in community
41:43
solar or whatever and the bills will
41:46
come up this is Dianne check which I
41:52
actually have some of those bills handy
41:55
so I am writing the bill number in the
41:58
if people want to look it up by bill
42:02
number you can do that and this is an
42:05
opportunity for everyone and thank you
42:07
dr. ron for your interest it’s an
42:10
opportunity for all of us as
42:11
constituents to add our voices to the
42:14
support for those those bills because if
42:17
we’re all interested in promoting solar
42:19
and we have these policy barriers in the
42:21
way it’s important to for us to let our
42:25
representatives know what we would like
42:27
and to help move the needle on these
42:29
things because I think that’s that’s
42:32
helping to get it done I’ve been to went
42:35
to one of the hearings before the
42:38
pandemic hit and it was standing room
42:41
only with people there in support of
42:43
some of these solar bills so it can make
42:46
a difference and it’s an easy thing to
42:49
do to write your reps thank you actually
42:54
there’s it’s kind of a bipartisan effort
42:58
you know there are Republican actually
43:00
very conservative Republicans who
43:02
support solar bills because they see it
43:05
as a electric choice issue and that they
43:08
really big on monopoly power of course
43:12
there’s also a few legislators who are
43:15
very friendly with the utilities so but
43:17
but there are both Republican and
43:19
Democratic legislators who are
43:20
supportive if I just wanted to make a
43:30
point about the financial model John
43:32
mirskiy described the ozone house
43:35
project in Ann Arbor oh they have a PPA
43:39
and set up very similar and it is I
43:42
think two percent return per year and
43:45
it’s not there to make a lot of money
43:48
but the savings to always own house
43:49
would be similar to what you’ve
43:51
described so you can kind of think of it
43:54
as an ultraconservative ond of some
43:57
sorts in terms of what kind of return
44:00
you’re gonna get and yes it is mostly
44:03
because that’s what you want to do
44:11
all right I just wanted to mention a few
44:14
more things now Diane just spoken and
44:17
she’s on a church in Ferndale she’s not
44:20
a congregant there so she’s coming from
44:24
the outside to do that and she’s also
44:26
put in installation or is in the process
44:29
on her condo to generate electricity for
44:34
the common areas and also I guess for
44:35
some of the occupants of the condo so
44:40
[Music]
44:52
once your targets learn how this works
45:00
they may go out and get sort of kennels
45:03
on their own one of the investors in the
45:05
PPA he’s a ophthalmologist and he put
45:08
solar panels on his office building on
45:17
the other hand when I put the solar
45:20
panels on my house although I wasn’t too
45:23
sure that I was convinced of the
45:24
calculations but they claimed there was
45:28
going to be an eight percent ROI all
45:36
right if there’s no more questions I
45:39
guess we’ll wrap it up

Similar Posts

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *